11:47 p.m.
Hi guys, (sorry for the crossposting)
Yesterday I noticed a little misalignement between the wiki and the
tags currently used by mappers.
The wiki [0] suggests to use the tag "railway=station" on nodes only
but taginfo [1] shows that there are 8120 way with that tag (and 515
relations too).
We are used to say "no automated edits" and "always discuss with other
mappers" so i just asked the dumb question «may I change them in Italy
accordingly to the wiki?» in my local mailing list [2].
Seeing that the topic is not limited in my country, another mapper
asked the same question (yeah, not really the same, but somehow
related) on the tagging mailing list [3].
Two hours later someone edited [4] the wiki page removing the
difference between a station and a halt, writing that the difference
is only in German speaking countries (of course it's false: English
has station/halt, Italian has stazione/fermata, French has gare/halte,
...) That sounds like vandalism for me. (He decided we shouldn't map
reality?)
We got some reactions in the Italian ML: some mappers agree with
putting the tag on a node, someone like it more on ways (even
buildings), other guys like relations.
Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that node
to be unconnected with the railway track?"
Now you know my story.
Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
"railway=station" with a node only?
I mean I need to have a two-line sentence to add to the wiki
(tag:railway=station) for those (the majority of the guys out there)
who didn't read the bible [5].
Any advice (answers, discussions, questions, doubts, ... even insults)
are welcome, let me know your point of view.
Thank you in advance.
Mauro.
[0] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dstation
[1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/railway=station?filter=ways#map
[2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-it/2016-May/052739.html
[3] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/2016-May/029241.html
[4]
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Arailway%3Dstation&...
[5] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging
7:28 a.m.
Hello Mauro,
concerning your questions
Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that
node
to be unconnected with the railway track?"
Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
"railway=station" with a node only?
I prefer the passengers view of a station or halt. If we will meet "at
the station" where are you expecting to find me? This is the position, I
usualy use for placing the railway=station node, definitly not on a
track. The track carries nodes like public_transport=stop_position.
Putting 'station' on a building or even a larger area leaves it to the
renderer or any other data consumer to guess the center of the station
from passenges view.
Cheers
Nzara
7:35 a.m.
New subject: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki
100% agree with Nzara.
Important to have ONE point for station, and the mapper can better decide where this is
then an algorithm.
nounours
Am 19.05.2016 um 07:28 schrieb Nzara <nzaraosm(a)gmail.com>:
Hello Mauro,
concerning your questions
> Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that node
> to be unconnected with the railway track?"
>
> Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
> "railway=station" with a node only?
I prefer the passengers view of a station or halt. If we will meet "at the
station" where are you expecting to find me? This is the position, I usualy use for
placing the railway=station node, definitly not on a track. The track carries nodes like
public_transport=stop_position. Putting 'station' on a building or even a larger
area leaves it to the renderer or any other data consumer to guess the center of the
station from passenges view.
Cheers
Nzara
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8:40 a.m.
New subject: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki
The one point approach works for small stations with a single entrance, but
is a little misleading for large station complexes with multiple entry
points. We have quite a few of these in India, where both sides are equally
important like the New Delhi station:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/28.64233/77.22188
In such cases its fair to add the marker in the centroid of the area, and
not on any particular side. The station building would then help the user
decide which entry is most convenient.
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Nounours77 <kuessemondtaeglich(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
100% agree with Nzara.
Important to have ONE point for station, and the mapper can better decide
where this is then an algorithm.
nounours
> Am 19.05.2016 um 07:28 schrieb Nzara <nzaraosm(a)gmail.com>:
>
> Hello Mauro,
>
> concerning your questions
>
>> Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that node
>> to be unconnected with the railway track?"
>>
>
>> Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
>> "railway=station" with a node only?
>
> I prefer the passengers view of a station or halt. If we will meet "at
the station" where are you expecting to find me? This is the position, I
usualy use for placing the railway=station node, definitly not on a track.
The track carries nodes like public_transport=stop_position. Putting
'station' on a building or even a larger area leaves it to the renderer or
any other data consumer to guess the center of the station from passenges
view.
>
> Cheers
> Nzara
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-transit mailing list
> Talk-transit(a)openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
_______________________________________________
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--
Arun Ganesh
@planemad
<http://j.mp/ArunGanesh>
1:14 a.m.
New subject: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki
I find the restriction of railway=station/halt to a node overly simplistic.
This decision should not be over a "convenient meeting point" or
"hand-tuned centroid". It should be about what's on the ground. A node is
an abstraction of reality and I don't think we should stop here. Every
station occupies some area and I would happily apply the rules of
public_transport=station to railway=station: map the area which is of
interest to passengers.
2016-05-19 8:40 GMT+02:00 Arun Ganesh <arun.planemad(a)gmail.com>:
The one point approach works for small stations with a single
entrance,
but is a little misleading for large station complexes with multiple entry
points. We have quite a few of these in India, where both sides are equally
important like the New Delhi station:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/28.64233/77.22188
In such cases its fair to add the marker in the centroid of the area, and
not on any particular side. The station building would then help the user
decide which entry is most convenient.
On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Nounours77 <kuessemondtaeglich(a)gmail.com
> wrote:
> 100% agree with Nzara.
> Important to have ONE point for station, and the mapper can better decide
> where this is then an algorithm.
>
> nounours
>
> > Am 19.05.2016 um 07:28 schrieb Nzara <nzaraosm(a)gmail.com>:
> >
> > Hello Mauro,
> >
> > concerning your questions
> >
> >> Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that node
> >> to be unconnected with the railway track?"
> >>
> >
> >> Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
> >> "railway=station" with a node only?
> >
> > I prefer the passengers view of a station or halt. If we will meet "at
> the station" where are you expecting to find me? This is the position, I
> usualy use for placing the railway=station node, definitly not on a track.
> The track carries nodes like public_transport=stop_position. Putting
> 'station' on a building or even a larger area leaves it to the renderer or
> any other data consumer to guess the center of the station from passenges
> view.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Nzara
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-transit mailing list
> > Talk-transit(a)openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-transit mailing list
> Talk-transit(a)openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>
--
Arun Ganesh
@planemad
<http://j.mp/ArunGanesh>
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2 a.m.
New subject: [Talk-transit] Tag railway=station on ways and Wiki
Three additional remarks:
* There is an explanation about only nodes on the wiki, did you miss
it? (https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:railway%3Dstation): If
you want to map the station as an area, please consider that different
people describe the station area differently. While passengers only
have the area around the station building and the platforms in mind,
railway staff and railway enthusiasts think of the whole railway area
which begins at the entry signal at one side and ends at the entry
signals at the other side. Therefore to avoid tagging disputes and
editwars railway stations should only be mapped as nodes.
* I made an own section about "Distinction Between Halt and Station"
* Both the wiki pages Railway Stations and building=railway_station
mention to put railway=station on the building. I guess this should be
removed.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Railway_stations
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:building%3Dtrain_station
2016-05-20 1:14 GMT+02:00 Joachim <noreply(a)freedom-x.de>:
I find the restriction of railway=station/halt to a node overly
simplistic.
This decision should not be over a "convenient meeting point" or
"hand-tuned
centroid". It should be about what's on the ground. A node is an abstraction
of reality and I don't think we should stop here. Every station occupies
some area and I would happily apply the rules of public_transport=station to
railway=station: map the area which is of interest to passengers.
2016-05-19 8:40 GMT+02:00 Arun Ganesh <arun.planemad(a)gmail.com>:
>
> The one point approach works for small stations with a single entrance,
> but is a little misleading for large station complexes with multiple entry
> points. We have quite a few of these in India, where both sides are equally
> important like the New Delhi station:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/28.64233/77.22188
>
> In such cases its fair to add the marker in the centroid of the area, and
> not on any particular side. The station building would then help the user
> decide which entry is most convenient.
>
>
> On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Nounours77
> <kuessemondtaeglich(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 100% agree with Nzara.
>> Important to have ONE point for station, and the mapper can better decide
>> where this is then an algorithm.
>>
>> nounours
>>
>> > Am 19.05.2016 um 07:28 schrieb Nzara <nzaraosm(a)gmail.com>:
>> >
>> > Hello Mauro,
>> >
>> > concerning your questions
>> >
>> >> Other question that came up was "why is it so important for that
node
>> >> to be unconnected with the railway track?"
>> >>
>> >
>> >> Can someone help me to know exactly why it's better tagging a
>> >> "railway=station" with a node only?
>> >
>> > I prefer the passengers view of a station or halt. If we will meet "at
>> > the station" where are you expecting to find me? This is the position,
I
>> > usualy use for placing the railway=station node, definitly not on a track.
>> > The track carries nodes like public_transport=stop_position. Putting
>> > 'station' on a building or even a larger area leaves it to the
renderer or
>> > any other data consumer to guess the center of the station from passenges
>> > view.
>> >
>> > Cheers
>> > Nzara
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Talk-transit mailing list
>> > Talk-transit(a)openstreetmap.org
>> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-transit mailing list
>> Talk-transit(a)openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-transit
>
>
>
>
> --
> Arun Ganesh
> @planemad
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openrailwaymap mailing list
> Openrailwaymap(a)openrailwaymap.org
> http://lists.openrailwaymap.org/lists/listinfo/openrailwaymap
>
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5 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Arun Ganesh
-
Joachim
-
Mauro Costantini
-
Nounours77
-
Nzara