9:46 p.m.
I wonder if we should retire the "deelectrified" tag entirely. I think it's
simply a bad idea. There is the abandoned-namespace that we already use for
the type of rail and similar things, so why not use abandoned:electrified=*?
This has the advantage that we can also use e.g. abandoned:voltage and
abandoned:frequency. Taginfo shows that deelectrified has slightly more usages
than abandoned:electrified: 514 vs. 466. Changing this now isn't that hard I
guess…
Greetings,
Eike
2:53 p.m.
Hi,
Am 2016-08-29 um 21:46 schrieb Rolf Eike Beer:
I wonder if we should retire the "deelectrified" tag
entirely. I think it's
simply a bad idea. There is the abandoned-namespace that we already use for
the type of rail and similar things, so why not use abandoned:electrified=*?
This has the advantage that we can also use e.g. abandoned:voltage and
abandoned:frequency.
deelectrified=* was added to the wiki page
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging) by
YamaOfParadise about two years ago.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=OpenRailwayMap%2FTagging...
YamaOfParadies, could you explain why you chose this tag? Or did you
just add it to document its usage?
I myself think that using the lifecycle prefix scheme is a good idea.
Best regards
Michael
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7:47 p.m.
Am Mittwoch, 31. August 2016, 14:53:02 schrieb Michael Reichert:
Hi,
Am 2016-08-29 um 21:46 schrieb Rolf Eike Beer:
> I wonder if we should retire the "deelectrified" tag entirely. I think
> it's
> simply a bad idea. There is the abandoned-namespace that we already use
> for
> the type of rail and similar things, so why not use
> abandoned:electrified=*? This has the advantage that we can also use e.g.
> abandoned:voltage and abandoned:frequency.
deelectrified=* was added to the wiki page
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging) by
YamaOfParadise about two years ago.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=OpenRailwayMap%2FTagging...
pe=revision&diff=1070191&oldid=1069876
YamaOfParadies, could you explain why you chose this tag? Or did you
just add it to document its usage?
I myself think that using the lifecycle prefix scheme is a good idea.
Just to have that archived: YamaOfParadies agreed on using the lifecycle
prefixes on IRC. We'll have to update the wiki.
Eike
9:41 p.m.
Am Donnerstag, 22. September 2016, 19:47:00 schrieb Rolf Eike Beer:
Am Mittwoch, 31. August 2016, 14:53:02 schrieb Michael Reichert:
> Hi,
>
> Am 2016-08-29 um 21:46 schrieb Rolf Eike Beer:
> > I wonder if we should retire the "deelectrified" tag entirely. I
think
> > it's
> > simply a bad idea. There is the abandoned-namespace that we already use
> > for
> > the type of rail and similar things, so why not use
> > abandoned:electrified=*? This has the advantage that we can also use
> > e.g.
> > abandoned:voltage and abandoned:frequency.
I have changed the wiki for German and English. Please update the other
languages if you are able to do that, I am not.
And, of course: if you added tags with deelectrified, then please update them
in the OSM database.
Eike
12:24 p.m.
Thank you so much.
Btw, in the same manner, should we move from "railway=abandoned" (wich
told nothing about the type of the railway) to the newer tagging
scheme "abandoned:railway=*" in order to be consistent with the
namespaces life cycle perefixes (and mantain the information about the
railway's type) ?
12:41 p.m.
Am 2016-09-26 12:24, schrieb Mauro Costantini:
Thank you so much.
Btw, in the same manner, should we move from "railway=abandoned" (wich
told nothing about the type of the railway) to the newer tagging
scheme "abandoned:railway=*" in order to be consistent with the
namespaces life cycle perefixes (and mantain the information about the
railway's type) ?
That is already what we do, in some way.
Active: railway=rail;*=*
<here comes the bulldozer>
Removed: railway=abandoned;abandoned:railway=rail;abandoned:*=*
Eike
5:24 p.m.
Hi Mauro,
Am 2016-09-26 um 12:41 schrieb Rolf Eike Beer:
Am 2016-09-26 12:24, schrieb Mauro Costantini:
> Thank you so much.
> Btw, in the same manner, should we move from "railway=abandoned" (wich
> told nothing about the type of the railway) to the newer tagging
> scheme "abandoned:railway=*" in order to be consistent with the
> namespaces life cycle perefixes (and mantain the information about the
> railway's type) ?
That is already what we do, in some way.
Active: railway=rail;*=*
<here comes the bulldozer>
Removed: railway=abandoned;abandoned:railway=rail;abandoned:*=*
abanoned:railway=* (aka lifecycle tagging scheme) competes with the
tagging used for non-operational roads (e.g. highway=construction +
construction=motorway). OpenRailwayMap currently tries to support
tagging scheme and I think that we should not force anyone to move from
one tagging scheme to another also it is better in the case of a
cycleway or road built on a former railway track (and the road currently
being closed due to construction works).
In future (future means many months, not many years), OpenRailwayMap
could enforce adding abandoned:railway=* or abandoned=* (and the same
for disused, construction etc.) to get the features rendered. We did
this already with usage=* (tracks without usage tag get rendered really
late) and railway:signal:direction. We just have to inform mappers a
while beforehand to prevent to much anger. :-)
Best regards
Michael
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1:07 p.m.
Dear all,
Am 26.09.2016 um 17:24 schrieb Michael Reichert:
> Active: railway=rail;*=*
> <here comes the bulldozer>
> Removed: railway=abandoned;abandoned:railway=rail;abandoned:*=*
abanoned:railway=* (aka lifecycle tagging scheme) competes with the
tagging used for non-operational roads (e.g. highway=construction +
construction=motorway). OpenRailwayMap currently tries to support
tagging scheme and I think that we should not force anyone to move from
one tagging scheme to another also it is better in the case of a
cycleway or road built on a former railway track (and the road currently
being closed due to construction works).
In future (future means many months, not many years), OpenRailwayMap
could enforce adding abandoned:railway=* or abandoned=* (and the same
for disused, construction etc.) to get the features rendered. We did
this already with usage=* (tracks without usage tag get rendered really
late) and railway:signal:direction. We just have to inform mappers a
while beforehand to prevent to much anger. :-)
Similar topic, same issue: Can/Shall the lifecycle tagging scheme also
be used for nodes?
E.g., near Hamburg Hbf. a node [1] is currently tagged as follows:
railway:disused=switch
railway:local_operated=no
railway:switch=default
I would prefer two additional tags:
> disused:railway=switch
railway:disused=switch
railway:local_operated=no
railway:switch=default
> railway=disused
However, JOSM complains on the usage of "railway=disused" on nodes.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Kind regards,
Denis.
[1] <https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3105955520>
--
.........................................................
Dipl.-Inf. Denis Stein
Research Scientist
Research Division ISPE | Research Department MPS
FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik
Haid-und-Neu-Str. 10–14
76131 Karlsruhe, Germany
Tel.: +49 721 9654-276
stein(a)fzi.de
www.fzi.de/mitarbeiter/stein
.........................................................
FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik am Karlsruher Institut für Technologie
Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Stiftung Az: 14-0563.1 Regierungspräsidium Karlsruhe
Vorstand: Prof. Dr. Andreas Oberweis, Prof. Dr. Ralf Reussner,
Jan Wiesenberger, Prof. Dr.-Ing. J. Marius Zöllner
Vorsitzender des Kuratoriums: Ministerialdirigent Günther Leßnerkraus
.........................................................
10:35 p.m.
Am Freitag, den 07.10.2016, 13:07 +0200 schrieb Denis Stein:
Similar topic, same issue: Can/Shall the lifecycle tagging scheme
also
be used for nodes?
E.g., near Hamburg Hbf. a node [1] is currently tagged as follows:
>
> railway:disused=switch
> railway:local_operated=no
> railway:switch=default
I would prefer two additional tags:
>
> disused:railway=switch
> railway:disused=switch
> railway:local_operated=no
> railway:switch=default
> railway=disused
However, JOSM complains on the usage of "railway=disused" on nodes.
If you want to use lifecycle tagging, then the disused has to be before
the key itself, e.g. disused:railway=switch, not
railway:disused=switch.
So your example should be:
* disused:railway=switch
* disused:railway:local_operated=no
* disused:railway:switch=default
railway=disused for nodes is just wrong because the meaning of
railway=disused is "a disused railway track", not "any type of disused
railway feature".
Regards
Alex
10:34 p.m.
Dear all,
Am 08.10.2016 um 22:35 schrieb Alexander Matheisen:
Am Freitag, den 07.10.2016, 13:07 +0200 schrieb Denis Stein:
> Similar topic, same issue: Can/Shall the lifecycle tagging scheme
> also
> be used for nodes?
>
> E.g., near Hamburg Hbf. a node [1] is currently tagged as follows:
>
>> railway:disused=switch
>> railway:local_operated=no
>> railway:switch=default
>
If you want to use lifecycle tagging, then the disused has to be before
the key itself, e.g. disused:railway=switch, not
railway:disused=switch.
So your example should be:
* disused:railway=switch
* disused:railway:local_operated=no
* disused:railway:switch=default
railway=disused for nodes is just wrong because the meaning of
railway=disused is "a disused railway track", not "any type of disused
railway feature".
Ok, I see. And how should I tag disused/abandoned turntables correctly?
[1] uses:
disused turntable
railway disused
[2, 3] uses (latter one for abandoned):
disused yes
railway turntable
Considering the life cycle, the "best" tagging might be:
disused:railway=turntable [abandoned:railway=turntable]
Right?
Kind regards,
Denis.
[1] <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/172383072>
[2] <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/314900683>
[3] <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/217164488>
--
.........................................................
Dipl.-Inf. Denis Stein
Research Scientist
Research Division ISPE | Research Department MPS
FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik
Haid-und-Neu-Str. 10–14
76131 Karlsruhe, Germany
Tel.: +49 721 9654-276
stein(a)fzi.de
www.fzi.de/mitarbeiter/stein
.........................................................
FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik am Karlsruher Institut für Technologie
Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Stiftung Az: 14-0563.1 Regierungspräsidium Karlsruhe
Vorstand: Prof. Dr. Andreas Oberweis, Prof. Dr. Ralf Reussner,
Jan Wiesenberger, Prof. Dr.-Ing. J. Marius Zöllner
Vorsitzender des Kuratoriums: Ministerialdirigent Günther Leßnerkraus
.........................................................
1:16 a.m.
Am Montag, den 10.10.2016, 22:34 +0200 schrieb Denis Stein:
Ok, I see. And how should I tag disused/abandoned turntables
correctly?
[1] uses:
>
> disused turntable
> railway disused
this is wrong for the same reason as described in an earlier post:
railway=disused should be used for tracks, not disused railway features
in general.
[2, 3] uses (latter one for abandoned):
>
> disused yes
> railway turntable
This is not wrong, but not the best solution. This disused=yes stuff
was established tagging before the lifecycle tagging appeared. But
today this tagging is deprecated and should be retagged using the
lifecycle schema in my opinion. But this schema is still in use.
Considering the life cycle, the "best" tagging might be:
>
> disused:railway=turntable [abandoned:railway=turntable]
Right?
Correct.
Regards
Alex
12:38 p.m.
Dear all,
When trying to update [1] according to your feedback (i.e., leaving
disused:railway=turntable as the only tag) JOSM complains/warns, that
this way might have no properties ("Merkmale").
Shall I upload with this only tag nevertheless?
Kind regards,
Denis.
[1] <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/172383072>
Am 12.10.2016 um 01:16 schrieb Alexander Matheisen:
Am Montag, den 10.10.2016, 22:34 +0200 schrieb Denis Stein:
> Ok, I see. And how should I tag disused/abandoned turntables
> correctly?
>
> [1] uses:
>
>> disused turntable
>> railway disused
> Considering the life cycle, the "best" tagging might be:
>
>> disused:railway=turntable [abandoned:railway=turntable]
Correct.
--
.........................................................
Dipl.-Inf. Denis Stein
Research Scientist
Research Division ISPE | Research Department MPS
FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik
Haid-und-Neu-Str. 10–14
76131 Karlsruhe, Germany
Tel.: +49 721 9654-276
stein(a)fzi.de
www.fzi.de/mitarbeiter/stein
.........................................................
FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik am Karlsruher Institut für Technologie
Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Stiftung Az: 14-0563.1 Regierungspräsidium Karlsruhe
Vorstand: Prof. Dr. Andreas Oberweis, Prof. Dr. Ralf Reussner,
Jan Wiesenberger, Prof. Dr.-Ing. J. Marius Zöllner
Vorsitzender des Kuratoriums: Ministerialdirigent Günther Leßnerkraus
.........................................................
5:39 p.m.
Dear all,
Do you have any recommendations to solve the (JOSM) tagging problem for
disused turntables (details see below)?
Kind regards,
Denis.
Am 12.10.2016 um 12:38 schrieb Denis Stein:
Dear all,
When trying to update [1] according to your feedback (i.e., leaving
disused:railway=turntable as the only tag) JOSM complains/warns, that
this way might have no properties ("Merkmale").
Shall I upload with this only tag nevertheless?
Kind regards,
Denis.
[1] <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/172383072>
Am 12.10.2016 um 01:16 schrieb Alexander Matheisen:
> Am Montag, den 10.10.2016, 22:34 +0200 schrieb Denis Stein:
>> Ok, I see. And how should I tag disused/abandoned turntables
>> correctly?
>>
>> [1] uses:
>>
>>> disused turntable
>>> railway disused
>
>> Considering the life cycle, the "best" tagging might be:
>>
>>> disused:railway=turntable [abandoned:railway=turntable]
>
> Correct.
--
.........................................................
Dipl.-Inf. Denis Stein
Research Scientist
Research Division ISPE | Research Department MPS
FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik
Haid-und-Neu-Str. 10–14
76131 Karlsruhe, Germany
Tel.: +49 721 9654-276
stein(a)fzi.de
www.fzi.de/mitarbeiter/stein
.........................................................
FZI Forschungszentrum Informatik am Karlsruher Institut für Technologie
Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts
Stiftung Az: 14-0563.1 Regierungspräsidium Karlsruhe
Vorstand: Prof. Dr. Andreas Oberweis, Prof. Dr. Ralf Reussner,
Jan Wiesenberger, Prof. Dr.-Ing. J. Marius Zöllner
Vorsitzender des Kuratoriums: Ministerialdirigent Günther Leßnerkraus
.........................................................
11:26 p.m.
Hi Denis,
Am 18.10.2016 um 17:39 schrieb Denis Stein:
Do you have any recommendations to solve the (JOSM) tagging problem
for
disused turntables (details see below)?
Kind regards,
Denis.
Am 12.10.2016 um 12:38 schrieb Denis Stein:
> Dear all,
>
> When trying to update [1] according to your feedback (i.e., leaving
> disused:railway=turntable as the only tag) JOSM complains/warns, that
> this way might have no properties ("Merkmale").
disused:railway=turntable (maybe with area=yes to make easier for
applications to decide if something is an area [2]) is everything you
need. The complain by JOSM is not justified. I suggest you to file a bug
report (is possible without account).
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/
Best regards
Michael
[2] Insert rant here.
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days inactive
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openrailwaymap@openrailwaymap.org
13 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Alexander Matheisen
-
Denis Stein
-
Mauro Costantini
-
Michael Reichert
-
Rolf Eike Beer