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Railroad Signals, Specifically the ISO

Re: Tagging proposal Dutch ETCS...

Schlüsselschalter vs. Stellwerk

Natfoot

Sunday, 3 January 2021 Sun, 3 Jan '21

5:20 p.m.

Hello Discussion List, Could someone fill me in on a chart of examples of this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key%3Arailway%3Asignal%3Adistant%3Ast... And This: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:speed... I am in the USA / North America. Thank You, Nat P email: natfoot(a)gmail.com

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Rolf Eike Beer

Sunday, 3 January Sun, 3 Jan

6:01 p.m.

Am Sonntag, 3. Januar 2021, 17:20:25 CET schrieb Natfoot:

Hello Discussion List, Could someone fill me in on a chart of examples of this: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/

Key%3Arailway%3Asignal%3Adistant%3Astates

And This: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:speed_li mit_distant:sp&action=edit&redlink=1 I am in the USA / North America.

I don't really get the question(s), but I'll try to assist. The distant states are usually "expect pass", "expect slow pass", and "expect stop". I guess the second should be ":speed" at the end? This will show the speed that the actual signal will have, e.g. "60", "100", or "65 mph". Eike

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Natfoot

Monday, 4 January Mon, 4 Jan

10:36 a.m.

Rolf, Thanks for the quick reply. I think I am confused by the ISO symbolying that is suggested to be used in the value location of these attributes. Though I could be wrong. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway:signal:distant States:"only light and semaphore signals railway:signal:distant:states <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:dista... =* – displayable signal apsects (e.g. stop, proceed, proceed at low speed, …). The value should begin with a country-operator-prefix, e.g. DE-ESO: or AT-V2" additionally in this email from the archive https://lists.openrailwaymap.org/archives/openrailwaymap/2015-July/000311... "...the aspects of signals can show the following: - main: Hp0, Ks1 - distant: Ks1, Ks2" There is no chart I could find with these ISO codes or any other documentation I could find. Thank You Nat Proudfoot (Stolzfuß) email: natfoot(a)gmail.com On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:09 AM Rolf Eike Beer <eike(a)sf-mail.de> wrote:

Am Sonntag, 3. Januar 2021, 17:20:25 CET schrieb Natfoot: > Hello Discussion List, > Could someone fill me in on a chart of examples of this: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ Key%3Arailway%3Asignal%3Adistant%3Astates > > And This: > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:speed_li > mit_distant:sp&action=edit&redlink=1 > > I am in the USA / North America. I don't really get the question(s), but I'll try to assist. The distant states are usually "expect pass", "expect slow pass", and "expect stop". I guess the second should be ":speed" at the end? This will show the speed that the actual signal will have, e.g. "60", "100", or "65 mph". Eike

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Maarten Deen

8:29 a.m.

On 2021-01-04 10:36, Natfoot wrote:

Rolf, Thanks for the quick reply. I think I am confused by the ISO symbolying that is suggested to be used in the value location of these attributes. Though I could be wrong. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway:signal:distant States:"only light and semaphore signals railway:signal:distant:states [1]=* – displayable signal apsects (e.g. stop, proceed, proceed at low speed, …). The value should begin with a country-operator-prefix, e.g. DE-ESO: or AT-V2" additionally in this email from the archive https://lists.openrailwaymap.org/archives/openrailwaymap/2015-July/000311... "...the aspects of signals can show the following: - main: Hp0, Ks1 - distant: Ks1, Ks2" There is no chart I could find with these ISO codes or any other documentation I could find.

Hp0, Ks1, etc are no ISO codes as such, they are the names of the aspects as they are used in Germany. See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_railway_signalling#Main_signal/dista... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_railway_signalling#Hl_Signals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_railway_signalling#Kombinationsignale In other countries the aspects may not be as formally named. In the Netherlands it is just "red" "yellow" "green" (flashing or not). Regards, Maarten

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Michael Kümmling

8:48 a.m.

Hi Natfoot, railway:signal:main:states, railway:signal:combined:states, railway:signal:distant:states are lists of signal aspects shown by the signal, separated by semicolon. Each signal aspect is abbreviated in the scheme <country code>:<rule book code>:<aspect code>. In North America, this could look like US-NORAC-281, US-NORAC-281b or US-BNSF-9.1.3, US-BNSF-9.1.4 and so on. Alternatively, it could be US-NORAC-clear, US-NORAC-approach-limited or US-BNSF-clear, US-BNSF-approach-limited and so on. Regards, Micha Am 04.01.21 um 10:36 schrieb Natfoot: > Rolf, > Thanks for the quick reply. I think I am confused by the ISO symbolying > that is suggested to be used in the value location of these attributes. > Though I could be wrong. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway:signal:distant > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway:signal:distant> > States:"only light and semaphore signals railway:signal:distant:states > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:dista... – > displayable signal apsects (e.g. stop, proceed, proceed at low speed, > …). The value should begin with a country-operator-prefix, e.g. > |DE-ESO:| or |AT-V2" | > > additionally in this email from the archive > https://lists.openrailwaymap.org/archives/openrailwaymap/2015-July/000311... > <https://lists.openrailwaymap.org/archives/openrailwaymap/2015-July/000311... > > "...the aspects of signals can show the following: > > - main: Hp0, Ks1 > - distant: Ks1, Ks2" > > There is no chart I could find with these ISO codes or any other documentation I could find. > > Thank You > Nat Proudfoot (Stolzfuß) > email: natfoot(a)gmail.com <mailto:natfoot@gmail.com> > > > On Sun, Jan 3, 2021 at 9:09 AM Rolf Eike Beer <eike(a)sf-mail.de > <mailto:eike@sf-mail.de>> wrote: > > Am Sonntag, 3. Januar 2021, 17:20:25 CET schrieb Natfoot: > > Hello Discussion List, > > Could someone fill me in on a chart of examples of this: > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/ > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/> > Key%3Arailway%3Asignal%3Adistant%3Astates > > > > And This: > > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:speed_li > <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:speed... > > mit_distant:sp&action=edit&redlink=1 > > > > I am in the USA / North America. > > I don't really get the question(s), but I'll try to assist. The > distant states > are usually "expect pass", "expect slow pass", and "expect stop". > > I guess the second should be ":speed" at the end? This will show the > speed > that the actual signal will have, e.g. "60", "100", or "65 mph". > > Eike >

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Rolf Eike Beer

10:44 a.m.

Am Montag, 4. Januar 2021, 10:36:10 CET schrieb Natfoot:

Rolf, Thanks for the quick reply. I think I am confused by the ISO symbolying that is suggested to be used in the value location of these attributes. Though I could be wrong. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway:signal:distant States:"only light and semaphore signals railway:signal:distant:states <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:distant :states&action=edit&redlink=1> =* – displayable signal apsects (e.g. stop, proceed, proceed at low speed, …). The value should begin with a country-operator-prefix, e.g. DE-ESO: or AT-V2" additionally in this email from the archive https://lists.openrailwaymap.org/archives/openrailwaymap/2015-July/000311.ht ml "...the aspects of signals can show the following: - main: Hp0, Ks1 - distant: Ks1, Ks2" There is no chart I could find with these ISO codes or any other documentation I could find.

This state list could predate the mandatory prefix, I remember that this was changed and we did a lot o retagging to make sure the values are unique worldwide. So in Germany the values ending at 0 are "stop",1 is "pass", and "2" is "pass slowly" or "expect stop". There are multiple signalling systems around, but that is what they have in common. For the oldest system (H/V) the main aspects are named Hp, and the distand aspects are named Vr. As a distant signal can only show what the main signal has this means: main: DE-ESO:hp0;DE-ESO:hp2 (stop, pass slowly) distant: DE-ESO:vr0;DE-ESO:vr2 As a bonus the stop aspect is named "hp0" in all signalling systems, so you may as well see "DE-ESO:hp0;DE-ESO:ks2", meaning "stop" and "expect stop". The H/V hp2 is a "pass slowly" aspect, if not noted with an additional speed signal means 40km/h. The Ks2 aspect means "expect stop", all speed regulations are explicitely signalled in this system. Eike

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Natfoot

Friday, 8 January Fri, 8 Jan

8:56 p.m.

Thanks for all the great responses! I need to find some time to respond effectively to these emails. Thanks, Nat P email: natfoot(a)gmail.com On Mon, Jan 4, 2021 at 1:45 AM Rolf Eike Beer <eike(a)sf-mail.de> wrote:

Am Montag, 4. Januar 2021, 10:36:10 CET schrieb Natfoot: > Rolf, > Thanks for the quick reply. I think I am confused by the ISO symbolying > that is suggested to be used in the value location of these attributes. > Though I could be wrong. > > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:railway:signal:distant > States:"only light and semaphore signals railway:signal:distant:states > < https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Key:railway:signal:distant > :states&action=edit&redlink=1> =* – displayable signal apsects (e.g. stop, > proceed, proceed at low speed, …). The value should begin with a > country-operator-prefix, e.g. DE-ESO: or AT-V2" > > additionally in this email from the archive > https://lists.openrailwaymap.org/archives/openrailwaymap/2015-July/000311.ht > ml > > "...the aspects of signals can show the following: > > - main: Hp0, Ks1 > - distant: Ks1, Ks2" > > There is no chart I could find with these ISO codes or any other > documentation I could find. This state list could predate the mandatory prefix, I remember that this was changed and we did a lot o retagging to make sure the values are unique worldwide. So in Germany the values ending at 0 are "stop",1 is "pass", and "2" is "pass slowly" or "expect stop". There are multiple signalling systems around, but that is what they have in common. For the oldest system (H/V) the main aspects are named Hp, and the distand aspects are named Vr. As a distant signal can only show what the main signal has this means: main: DE-ESO:hp0;DE-ESO:hp2 (stop, pass slowly) distant: DE-ESO:vr0;DE-ESO:vr2 As a bonus the stop aspect is named "hp0" in all signalling systems, so you may as well see "DE-ESO:hp0;DE-ESO:ks2", meaning "stop" and "expect stop". The H/V hp2 is a "pass slowly" aspect, if not noted with an additional speed signal means 40km/h. The Ks2 aspect means "expect stop", all speed regulations are explicitely signalled in this system. Eike

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Maarten Deen
Michael Kümmling
Natfoot
Rolf Eike Beer