10:43 p.m.
Hello,
The German definition is different than what was internationally agreed upon in OSM. In my
opinion German mappers should allow me to change the usage tags on German lines in
accordance with the international definition. Does anyone disagree?
Best regards,
JJJWegdam
Background
the German definition for Hauptbahne
"Rechtliche Grundlagen
Deutschland
Die Strecken werden entsprechend ihrer Bedeutung nach Hauptbahnen und Nebenbahnen
unterschieden. Die Entscheidung darüber, welche Strecken Hauptbahnen und welche
Nebenbahnen sind, treffen
für die Eisenbahnen des Bundes das jeweilige Unternehmen,
für Eisenbahnen, die nicht zum Netz der Eisenbahnen des Bundes gehören (nichtbundeseigene
Eisenbahnen), die zuständige Landesbehörde."
the definiton on the OpenRailwayMap tagging page
"Main line, mostly double tracked and electrified. Use this tag on railways with high
maximum speed and dense traffic. Railway crossings are mostly elevated. In North America,
this can include single-tracked non-electrified line, especially over very long
distances."
"Branch lines, which are mostly single tracked, not electrified and with lower
maximum speed. Railway crossings are mostly at the same level as tracks."
Op 3 oktober 2020 om 23:54 uur schreef Michael Kümmling <michael(a)kuemmling.eu>:
Hi,
JJJWegdam noted, that the usage of the tag usage=main/branch differs
between Geramany and other countries (see
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20641783).
In Germany, it is usually applied based on the legal status of a line as
branch line or main line. This means, that sometimes single track lines
with low speed and rather local relevance are tagged usage=main.
What's your opinion?
Regards,
Micha
11:42 p.m.
New subject: usage=main/branch in Germany vs. other countries?
JJJWegdam,
We have area specific tagging for railroads. We have agreed that Germany is
very different from North America for example. And as such we have very
different tagging opportunities.
Best Regards
Nathan P
email: natfoot(a)gmail.com
On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 1:57 PM JJJ Wegdam via Openrailwaymap <
openrailwaymap(a)openrailwaymap.org> wrote:
Hello,
The German definition is different than what was internationally agreed
upon in OSM. In my opinion German mappers should allow me to change the
usage tags on German lines in accordance with the international definition.
Does anyone disagree?
Best regards,
JJJWegdam
*Background*the German definition for Hauptbahne
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptbahn#Deutschland>"Rechtliche
Grundlagen
Deutschland
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptbahn#Deutschland>Die Strecken werden
entsprechend ihrer Bedeutung nach Hauptbahnen und Nebenbahnen
unterschieden. Die Entscheidung darüber, welche Strecken Hauptbahnen und
welche Nebenbahnen sind, treffen
1. für die Eisenbahnen des Bundes das jeweilige Unternehmen,
2. für Eisenbahnen, die nicht zum Netz der Eisenbahnen des Bundes
gehören (nichtbundeseigene Eisenbahnen), die zuständige Landesbehörde."
the definiton on the OpenRailwayMap tagging page
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging>"Main line,
mostly double tracked and electrified. Use this tag on railways with high
maximum speed and dense traffic. Railway crossings are mostly elevated. In
North America, this can include single-tracked non-electrified line,
especially over very long distances."
"Branch lines, which are mostly single tracked, not electrified and with
lower maximum speed. Railway crossings are mostly at the same level as
tracks."
Op 3 oktober 2020 om 23:54 uur schreef Michael Kümmling <
michael(a)kuemmling.eu>:
Hi,
JJJWegdam noted, that the usage of the tag usage=main/branch differs
between Geramany and other countries (see
https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20641783).
In Germany, it is usually applied based on the legal status of a line as
branch line or main line. This means, that sometimes single track lines
with low speed and rather local relevance are tagged usage=main.
What's your opinion?
Regards,
Micha
9:18 p.m.
New subject: usage=main/branch in Germany vs. other countries?
Hello,
in Germany, Hauptbahnen (main lines) connecting Germany in all, in
longer distances: east to west, north to south. It is irrelevant if they
are still not electrified or (only) are still single-tracked, e.g.
Husum- Sylt.
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null&lat=54.619002575293116&...
Years after the Second World War, some east-west railroads lost their
importance, had less traffic, were not be electrified and the second
track was sometimes dismantled e.g. Altenbeken - Ottbergen - Höxter -
Kreiensen / - Ottbergen - Nordheim. They are still main lines ( with
less traffic bevor the Second World War ).
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null&lat=51.74021097589667&l...
To give you an idea of a typical branch line (Nebenbahn) in Germany, the
route from Kassel to Naumburg is an example.
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null&lat=51.2578327482091&lo...
__________________________________
see also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany#Nebenbahn
/Nebenbahn/
/As the main line network consolidated, railways were driven into the
hinterland, serving local needs and commuter traffic. This was the age
of the branch line or //Nebenbahn//(plural: -en), also variously called
the //Sekundärbahn
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekund%C3%A4rbahn>//("secondary line"),
//Vizinalbahn
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizinalbahn>//("neighbourhood line") or
//Lokalbahn <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokalbahn>//("local line")
depending on local laws and usage. /
__________________________________
Best Regards,
Michael
Am 18.10.2020 um 22:43 schrieb JJJ Wegdam via Openrailwaymap:
Hello,
The German definition is different than what was internationally
agreed upon in OSM. In my opinion German mappers should allow me to
change the usage tags on German lines in accordance with the
international definition. Does anyone disagree?
Best regards,
JJJWegdam
*Background
*the German definition for Hauptbahne
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptbahn#Deutschland>"Rechtliche
Grundlagen
Deutschland
<https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptbahn#Deutschland>Die Strecken
werden entsprechend ihrer Bedeutung nach Hauptbahnen und Nebenbahnen
unterschieden. Die Entscheidung darüber, welche Strecken Hauptbahnen
und welche Nebenbahnen sind, treffen
1. für die Eisenbahnen des Bundes das jeweilige Unternehmen,
2. für Eisenbahnen, die nicht zum Netz der Eisenbahnen des Bundes
gehören (nichtbundeseigene Eisenbahnen), die zuständige
Landesbehörde."
the definiton on theOpenRailwayMap tagging page
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging>"Main
line, mostly double tracked and electrified. Use this tag on railways
with high maximum speed and dense traffic. Railway crossings are
mostly elevated. In North America, this can include single-tracked
non-electrified line, especially over very long distances."
"Branch lines, which are mostly single tracked, not electrified and
with lower maximum speed. Railway crossings are mostly at the same
level as tracks."
Op 3 oktober 2020 om 23:54 uur schreef Michael Kümmling
<michael(a)kuemmling.eu>:
> Hi,
>
> JJJWegdam noted, that the usage of the tag usage=main/branch differs
> between Geramany and other countries (see
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20641783).
>
> In Germany, it is usually applied based on the legal status of a line as
> branch line or main line. This means, that sometimes single track lines
> with low speed and rather local relevance are tagged usage=main.
>
> What's your opinion?
>
>
> Regards,
> Micha
10:26 p.m.
New subject: usage=main/branch in Germany vs. other countries?
Hello JJJWegdam & all,
I understand the desire for a uniform distinction between main and
branch lines worldwide. We look at OSM-based maps and want to have them
mapped in a reasonably comparable way. The wording in the Wiki mentions
a few criteria, dual track, electrification, speed, traffic density, but
already with the example of North America it points out that this can be
different in some regions. This is exactly the point for me: a main line
can look very different in different regions of the world. What is a
secondary line in Europe in terms of infrastructure can be a lifeline of
the country elsewhere and the local mapper will map it as a main line.
In other words, in my opinion there is no other way than to see the
classification into main and branch lines in a regional context. And
this makes the classification in many cases a subjective one. In
Germany, where there is a legal distinction, this is of course a
criterion that makes it relatively easy to classify. This is probably
what some of the users of the Openrailwaymap would like to be able to
deduce from the map.
I would agree with discussing the classification of individual routes in
ORM, but I would not agree with ironing over a supposedly globally valid
and appropriate scheme.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
Bye,
Rainer
Am 19.10.20 um 21:18 schrieb MiKeHo via Openrailwaymap:
Hello,
in Germany, Hauptbahnen (main lines) connecting Germany in all, in
longer distances: east to west, north to south. It is irrelevant if
they are still not electrified or (only) are still single-tracked,
e.g. Husum- Sylt.
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null&lat=54.619002575293116&...
Years after the Second World War, some east-west railroads lost their
importance, had less traffic, were not be electrified and the second
track was sometimes dismantled e.g. Altenbeken - Ottbergen - Höxter -
Kreiensen / - Ottbergen - Nordheim. They are still main lines ( with
less traffic bevor the Second World War ).
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null&lat=51.74021097589667&l...
To give you an idea of a typical branch line (Nebenbahn) in Germany,
the route from Kassel to Naumburg is an example.
https://www.openrailwaymap.org/?lang=null&lat=51.2578327482091&lo...
__________________________________
see also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Germany#Nebenbahn
/Nebenbahn/
/As the main line network consolidated, railways were driven into the
hinterland, serving local needs and commuter traffic. This was the age
of the branch line or //Nebenbahn//(plural: -en), also variously
called the //Sekundärbahn
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sekund%C3%A4rbahn>//("secondary line"),
//Vizinalbahn
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vizinalbahn>//("neighbourhood line") or
//Lokalbahn <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lokalbahn>//("local line")
depending on local laws and usage. /
__________________________________
Best Regards,
Michael
Am 18.10.2020 um 22:43 schrieb JJJ Wegdam via Openrailwaymap:
> Hello,
>
> The German definition is different than what was internationally
> agreed upon in OSM. In my opinion German mappers should allow me to
> change the usage tags on German lines in accordance with the
> international definition. Does anyone disagree?
>
> Best regards,
> JJJWegdam
>
> *Background
> *the German definition for Hauptbahne
> <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptbahn#Deutschland>"Rechtliche
> Grundlagen
> Deutschland
> <https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hauptbahn#Deutschland>Die Strecken
> werden entsprechend ihrer Bedeutung nach Hauptbahnen und Nebenbahnen
> unterschieden. Die Entscheidung darüber, welche Strecken Hauptbahnen
> und welche Nebenbahnen sind, treffen
>
> 1. für die Eisenbahnen des Bundes das jeweilige Unternehmen,
> 2. für Eisenbahnen, die nicht zum Netz der Eisenbahnen des Bundes
> gehören (nichtbundeseigene Eisenbahnen), die zuständige
> Landesbehörde."
>
> the definiton on theOpenRailwayMap tagging page
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OpenRailwayMap/Tagging>"Main
> line, mostly double tracked and electrified. Use this tag on railways
> with high maximum speed and dense traffic. Railway crossings are
> mostly elevated. In North America, this can include single-tracked
> non-electrified line, especially over very long distances."
> "Branch lines, which are mostly single tracked, not electrified and
> with lower maximum speed. Railway crossings are mostly at the same
> level as tracks."
>
>
> Op 3 oktober 2020 om 23:54 uur schreef Michael Kümmling
> <michael(a)kuemmling.eu>:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> JJJWegdam noted, that the usage of the tag usage=main/branch differs
>> between Geramany and other countries (see
>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/20641783).
>>
>> In Germany, it is usually applied based on the legal status of a
>> line as
>> branch line or main line. This means, that sometimes single track lines
>> with low speed and rather local relevance are tagged usage=main.
>>
>> What's your opinion?
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Micha
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days inactive
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3 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
JJJ Wegdam
-
MiKeHo
-
Natfoot
-
Rainer