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306 discussions

Re: [openrailwaymap] [OpenRailwayMap] Proposal to render/tag catenary structures (#215)
by JJJ Wegdam 20 Oct '15

20 Oct '15

The Dutch public datasets (please consider attachment for more info) contain all catenary structures in the Netherlands. Since I found out that no catenary structures have yet been mapped anywhere in the country, I thought it would be a nice opportunity for an automated import. Catenary poles (displayed as nodes in the datasets) can currently be tagged as power=catenary_mast. I'd like to propose an additional power=catenary_fixture tag to tag catenary portal-beams, stanchions and arms (displayed as lines in the datasets). I'd appreciate to hear your opinion on this new tag. It would bring the import a step closer. Thank you in advance. Jeroen Wegdam Student-assistant at ProRail (Dutch railway asset owner) PS/update: currently, I am replacing all Dutch OSM railway ways with proper positions. Before importing the catenaries, I will first finish the railway geometry and platform wall imports. This will result in catenaries that fit seamlesssly to the railways. All imports are done manually (with great care for existing data). Op 18 okt 2015 om 13:09 uur uur schreef Alexander Matheisen <notifications(a)github.com>: This is a tagging discussion. Please continue it on the mailing list. — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

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[CH] Telefonrufsignal / phone call signal
by Michael Reichert 14 Sep '15

14 Sep '15

Hallo, beim Erstellen des Schweizer Taggingschemas habe ich ein paar Signale ausgelassen, an deren Existenz ich Zweifel hatte oder bei denen ich mir mit dem Verständnis schwer tat. Ein solcher Fall war das Telefonrufsignal. Die Fahrdienstvorschrift beschreibt es so: > Obligatorische Verbindungsaufnahme vom Lokführer zum Fahrdienstleiter > bei haltenden Zugfahrten und Rangierbewegungen Auf Drehscheibe-Online habe ich dann nachgefragt und mir wurde mit einem tagesaktuellen Bild bestätigt, dass es dieses Signal noch in Basel Rangierbahnhof gibt. Verwendet wird es aber nicht mehr (zumindest bei der SBB in Basel Rangierbahnhof). http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?106,7364538 Ich schlage folgendes Tagging vor: railway:signal:phone=CH-FdV:277 railway:signal:phone:form=light railway:signal:phone:states=CH-FdV:277;off Es würde daher also der neue Signaltype "phone" für Signale im Zusammenhang mit der kabelgebundenen Kommunikation geben. Bisher gibt es schon "radio" für Signale des Zugfunks (z.B. Zugfunk-Kanaltafel). Viele Grüße Michael -------------------------------- Hi, at the moment I am finishing a railway signal tagging scheme for Switzerland. [1] There is one signal there which I cannot assign to a existing signal type (e.g. main, distant, speed_limit, radio, …) – the phone call signal (German "Telefonrufsignal"). It flashes if the staff at the signal box wants to call a train driver. He has to leave his locomotive and talk to the signal box staff using the next phone. Although Switzerland has GSM-R (or analogue radio at some lines) and public cell phone networks as an alternative, this signal still exists (e.g. at Basel Yard Station). A Swiss train driver told me that he has not seen it flashing for a long time. http://www.drehscheibe-online.de/foren/read.php?106,7364538,7365464#msg-736… I suggest following tagging: railway:signal:phone=CH-FdV:277 railway:signal:phone:form=light railway:signal:phone:states=CH-FdV:277;off This would introduce the signal type "phone" parallel to the existing "radio". phone should be used for cable-bound communication, radio for GMS-R etc. Best regards Michael [1] English translation will follow soon. It should be an example tagging scheme documented both in German and English. https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:OpenRailwayMap/Tagging_in_Switzerland -- Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten ausgenommen) I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)

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digitale Grundkarte NRW als Quelle für die Hektometrierung
by Michael Reichert 14 Sep '15

14 Sep '15

Hallo, gerade bin ich dabei meine Videos der Strecke Hagen–Siegen auszuwerten. Da die Strecke in NRW liegt, stehen mehr Quellen als üblich zur Verfügung. Neben den Bing-Bildern gibt es: - 10 cm Orthophotos der Metropolregion als WMS (nur Hagen–Hohenlimburg) - 40 cm Orthophotos des NRW-Atlas als WMS - digitale Grundkarte (1:5000) des NRW-Atlas als WMS All das wird automatisch in JOSM angeboten. Gerade die digitale Grundkarte ist für die Sesselmapper unter uns ein Blick wert. Sie enthält nämlich die Hektometrierung der Bahnstrecken. Alle 500 Meter findet man ein auf der Spitze stehende Quadrat mit einem schwarzen Punkt. Daneben steht die Entfernung. Es scheint die genaue Position (d.h. nicht wie bei den Tafeln an den Oberleitungsmasten gerundete Angaben) zu handeln. Nach ein paar Tagen Arbeit liese sich damit eine Grundabdeckung bzgl. Hektometertafeln erreichen (und die übrige Energie in wichtigere Aufgaben (Signale + Höchstgeschwindigkeiten) stecken). Die Hektometrierung ändert sich i.d.R. nicht, da Trassenverlegungen selten sind. Trotzdem schadet ein Kontrollblick auf die Luftbilder nicht. Die digitale Grundkarte ist nicht generalisiert und eignet sich damit hervorragend für Lagekorrekturen, *auch in Tunnels* und verschatteten Bereichen. Bitte beachtet, dass aufgrund des fortschreitenden Abbaus von Gleisanlagen (insbesondere Nebengleise) die Datengrundlage nicht die neuste ist. :-) https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/NRW-Atlas Viele Grüße Michael -- Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten ausgenommen) I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)

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Proposal: tag turntables and traversers like a piece of track
by Rolf Eike Beer 11 Aug '15

11 Aug '15

I just came over this yesterday: turntables and traversers are tagged only on their outer limit. Often you find one piece in it also tagged, often the one showing the track location at the time of a random sattelite image. I would suggest not tagging that piece of track, giving the renderer the freedom to put one at a random place (or even animating one, think of f4map). So one would need to put the information like electrification somewhere. I suggest adding those tags (electrification, gauge) directly to the traverser or turntable (outline). Eike

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That's why service=* is important / Darum ist service=* so wichtig
by Michael Reichert 10 Aug '15

10 Aug '15

Hi, maybe you already read Mateusz Konieczny's diary entries about his large modifications of OSM Carto as part of this year's Google Summer of Code. If not, I suggest you to have a look at the comparision. He refurbishs road rendering at OSM Carto and – as part of this project – he also refurbishs railway rendering. His changes highlight the usage of service=* as a tag for minor railway tracks very much and therefore improves rendering of general maps at low zoom levels. His full blog post: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny/diary/35555 (also have a look at his older posts) Krakow before the changes: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9151569/2f843366-3e06-11e… Karkow after the changes: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9151570/318ff0be-3e06-11e… Best regards Michael Hallo, vielleicht lest ihr schon die Post von Mateusz Konieczny in seinem User Diary. Falls nicht, so möchte ich euch darauf aufmerksam machen. Im Rahmen des diesjährigen Google Summer of Code überarbeitet er das Rendering von Straßen in OSM Carto. Dabei überarbeitet er auch das Rendering von Gleisen. Seine Änderungen nutzen stark das von uns als Mappern gern verwendete Tag service=* und verbessern so Mehrzweck-Karten in kleinen Maßstäben. Blogpost: https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny/diary/35555 (lest auch seine älteren Posts) Krakau Ist-Zustand: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9151569/2f843366-3e06-11e… Karkau mit seinen Modifikationen: https://cloud.githubusercontent.com/assets/899988/9151570/318ff0be-3e06-11e… Viele Grüße Michael -- Per E-Mail kommuniziere ich bevorzugt GPG-verschlüsselt. (Mailinglisten ausgenommen) I prefer GPG encryption of emails. (does not apply on mailing lists)

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Putting segments to route
by PeterDRS 08 Aug '15

08 Aug '15

Hi, is it allowed to create a relation Dresden - Leipzig, a relation Leipzig - SFS - Erfurt and a relation Erfurt - Fulda and a relation Fulda - Frankfurt (Süd) and then put all these relations in one master route? If yes, some tools could profit from this to show big routes constructed out of pieces. And the small pieces can be used in many routes. When constructing an IC Dresden - Leipzig - Hannover - Köln, the first piece Dresden - Leipzig already exists and can be used for it. If it is forbidden, how long does one come in prison if he creates such relations? Greets Peter

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Logo Drafts
by Michael Reichert 08 Aug '15

08 Aug '15

Hi everybody, over the last weeks I have worked on a couple of logo drafts for OpenRailwayMap which has up to now no project logo. I have already presented prior drafts to rurseekatze, Dakon and bigbug21 – now it is time for your feedback. All drafts base on the feedback I recieved from them. I have uploaded my draft to OpenStreetMap wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Openrailwaymap-logo-selection.svg Some additional comments to my drafts: Prior drafts contained a German/Polish semaphore main signal. Because we want not to look outdated, I decided to use a light signal. The current light signal has lots of German elements but AFAIK such a signal is not used on a German railway line (it may be used by a German subway company). There are signals which look very similar to this in Kalsruhe and around Mannheim on branch lines but these signals have their white speed light signal above the green lamp. The white-red-white pole sign can be found on lots of German main signals. I do not want to have to much similarities to the OpenStreetMap logo. First, nobody can guarantee that ORM will use OSM as the single data source in future and, second, OSM logo is a trademark registred by OSMF. You can still find elements at my drafts which can also be found at the OSM logo – a folded map and some landuse and boundaries on the map. I would like to hear your feedback about my drafts. You can also create own drafts but please publish them under CC-0 or PD- self as SVG. Btw, I can distinguish red and green and therefore I would like to hear feedback from men who cannot do this. Best regards Michael

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Re: [openrailwaymap] Logo Drafts
by rza31 07 Aug '15

07 Aug '15

I prefer a base of #7 #8 #9 with blue pencil. The folded map is similar the JOSM-Logo. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:JOSM_Logo_2014.svg So we have a Corporate Design. Greetings, rza31

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Rail movement joint/expansion device/Auszugvorrichtung
by Martin Simon 05 Aug '15

05 Aug '15

(German below) Dear railway mappers, I would like to add some detail on railway and tram lines in my area and have been searching for a tag for "rail movement joints" / "railway expansion devices" (I found these terms online, the German term is "Auszugvorrichtung"). The feature in question is a device often found on railways at bridges or long straight tracks. It allows the tracks (and the bridge undereath) to expand or shrink in length (as a result of temperature change) without damage. This seems to be the matching DIN EN: http://www.fsf.din.de/cmd?level=tpl-art-detailansicht&committeeid=54739023&… ...and BS EN: http://shop.bsigroup.com/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030214647 How should we tag these features in OSM? railway=movement_joint? railway=expension_device? Which object type should be used? From a map perspective, they might be "point" features, marking the point where the tracks are cut. If you're a railway planner, however, you need to consider that the device itself has a length of several meters - not as big as the average switch/turnout, but still... -Martin Hallo Eisenbahn-Mapper! Ich habe nach einem tag für Auszugvorrichtungen (Konstruktionen zur Aufnahme der Wärmedehnung der Schienen an Brücken oder langen Geraden) gesucht, weil ich ein paar Details zu Streckenabschnitten nachtragen wollte, mit denen ich zu tun hatte. Wie sollen wir so etwas taggen? Im Netz habe ich die oben aufgeführten Übersetzungen gefunden, die zu den genannten tags führen könnten. Weiterhin müsste man sich gedanken machen, ob man die Stelle der Trennung als Punkt taggen will (generalisiert) oder die ganze Konstruktion von Schweißnaht zu Schweißnaht als Linie erfassen möchte. letzteres ist mit unserer erreichbaren Positionsgenauigkeit natürlich nicht ganz so einfach. Gruß, Martin

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Proposal for new Ks signal tagging scheme
by PeterDRS 03 Aug '15

03 Aug '15

Proposal for new tagging scheme for Ks signals A. Problem Today there are 3 different signal "types" for tagging: - distant - main - combined signals. The only participant in train protection are main and combined signals. Distant signals do not manage the movement authority. They "just" announce the state of the following main aspect signal. Combined signals are no special "type" of signal, they just be "intelligent" with showing the signal states. That means, the aspects of signals can show the following: - main: Hp0, Ks1 - distant: Ks1, Ks2 When combining two aspects, some states are suppressed: Main + Distant = Shown state Hp0 + Ks1 = Hp0 Hp0 + Ks2 = Hp0 Ks1 + Ks1 = Ks1 Ks1 + Ks2 = Ks2 B. Solution It would be much more logical to map both aspects, main and distant, at one node. Advantages: - When not knowing whether a signal is main or combined, it stays flexible to change it later. Nowadays, you have to delete all "combined" tags and make "main" tags an vice versa - No need to have 2 (main + combined) namespaces with all the properties of signals - No need to maintain 2 JOSM preset items - Possibility to filter all main aspect signals, no matter whether they are "combined" signals or "normal" main signals To tag the states I propose to tag a main aspect signal: railway:signal:main=DE-ESO:ks That makes a signal identified as Ks signal, no matter of the states railway:signal:main:states=DE-ESO:hp0 That is what every main aspect signal can show Optional: railway:signal:main:states=DE-ESO:hp0,DE-ESO:ks1 Every distant signal can show DE-ESO:ks2 There is no need to tag this. If a distant signal can also show ks1, tag: railway:signal:distant:states=DE-ESO:ks1,DE-ESO:ks2 There are signals before a buffer stop that can only show Hp0 and Ks2. They would be tagged as follows: railway:signal:main=DE-ESO:ks railway:signal:main:states=DE-ESO:hp0 railway:signal:distant=DE-ESO:ks railway:signal:distant:states=DE-ESO:ks2 A marker light should not be tagged as "DE-ESO:kennlicht", as it is not clear if it is a property of main or distant aspect. I propose to go back to the past with: railway:signal:marker_light=yes That neutral to main or distant. The minor signal should distinguish between Ra 12 (DV) and Sh 1 (DS). I propose to tag: railway:signal:minor=DE-ESO:ds:sh1 or railway:signal:minor=DE-ESO:dv:ra12 Use ds and dv namespace instead of db and dr, as DB and DR no longer exists, DV and DS are the official abbreviations used by DBAG. When tagging signals that are harmonized in DS and DV = Ril301, DO NOT tag this. Zs6 (Gegengleisanzeiger): railway:signal:wrong_road=DE-ESO:zs6 Specify form: railway:signal:wrong_road:form=sign railway:signal:wrong_road:form=light A light can also be Zs8. NO SPECIAL TAGGING, as it is not needed. Every Zs6 can technically show Zs8. If the signal box can't do it, there is no need to tag this at the signal. Zs7 (Vorsichtsignal): railway:signal:main:substitute_signal=DE-ESO:zs7 Tagging of the signal ref: Distinguish between ESTW-Kennzahl and signal ref. 16P3 = 16 + P3 ref:kennzahl=16 ref=P3 That makes it possible to show only the P3 in special applications. When one needs the 16 he can take it from ref:kennzahl. Zs3/Zs3v: Switch over to railway:signal:speed_signal Advantage: Possibility to tag a Lf7 at the same position railway:signal:speed_signal=DE-ESO:zs3 railway:signal:speed_signal:speed=60 railway:signal:speed_signal:form=sign/light (default: sign) As signals have positions, meaning a km (example: km 18.543) the tag railway:signal:position=18.543 should be used. The "Standort" should be tagged as railway:signal:location=left/right/bridge The direction should be tagged as railway:signal:direction=nominal/reverse regarding to the OSM way. I know that at least Nakaner will be against ALL my ideas. But that is no matter for me, as long as he has no real arguments beside of saying that the ideas are "from me". Greets PeterDRS

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